Dec 30, 2023·edited Dec 30, 2023Liked by Joel J Miller
Williams is one of those Christian figures like Origen the Alexandrian who may be read with profit but must be read with discernment. My guess is that a significant element in his troubles was that he thought of himself as a Poet and that that somehow made him different from most other people, and that ordinary counsels of prudence applying to them didn't apply to him. Thus he indulged two things, an attraction to occultism and a kind of spiritual adultery. The occultism was involved in his presentation sometimes of Christianity as something with esoteric elements, and the spiritual adultery was terribly injurious to his marriage and, I suspect, his fatherhood vis-a-vis his son. That I have benefited from reading him for more than 50 years I don't doubt, but I also think he very much needed to make a clean breast of some things with a sturdy pastor or priest. He didn't, so far as I know from reading Grevel Lindop's biography, etc.
There's much enjoyable entertainment in some of his novels, and also I never read Descent into Hell without feeling like getting on my knees in prayer.
Joel, you have a way of convincing your readers to pick up all these fascinating books (even if they cannot possibly add anything more to their reading list...). Before Christmas I incredibly found a vintage boxed set of George McDonald fantasy stories, and will now be sure to keep my eyes open for Williams' when browsing at the used book store. Thanks for always supplying such fascinating details about the authors you introduce :)
I found these novels (in cloth bound editions at the public library! I had not realized my good fortune until reading your post!) and devoured them a decade ago thanks to research I was conducting prior to interviewing Elisabeth Elliot's brother, Thomas Howard. Have you read Howard's Novels of Charles Williams? If not you might enjoy it. Wipf & Stock has a solid edition, and it's fwded by J. I. Packer and blurred by Madeleine L'Engle.
I may need to give him another try. I got bogged down in the Place of the Lion and never finished it. Something about the platonic ideals felt a bit on the nose.
In the quote from Lewis, is the"Wm Morris" he is referring to the designer William Morris?
I think Lamb's cover art would alone sell Williams' books. However, Lewis's testimonial of Williams is actually a bit of a warning signal for mr. I share Lewis's love of Chesterton. However, I attempted to read George MacDonald before knowing Lewis was a fan and then again after I read Lewis's recommendation of MacDonald. I still cannot stand MacDonald although I made multiple tries with various of his works - his questionable orthodoxy made me uneasy, but it was his style that really put me off. Some written fantasy makes one's waking reality clearer and lighter, while other written fantasy is like reading one's dreams. And I don't mean daydreams, but rather the night dreams that came to life on the Island where Dreams Come True in Lewis's 'The Voyage on the Dawn Treader'. MacDonald produced the latter kind of fantasy, and I just wanted to wake up from it whenever I tried to read it. Some less well-known works by Lewis, such as 'The Pilgrim's Regress', and by Chesterton, such as 'The Ball and the Cross' have similar waking dream tendencies (Chesterton's 'The Man who was Thursday' was intended to do so). It sounds as if Williams might be another such creator of waking dream fantasy.
I really enjoyed War In Heaven, but was startled by a the appearance of a baddie who was little more than an antisemitic caricature part of the way through.
I still plan to read the rest.
You won’t believe this, but I have not one, but two complete sets of the Eerdmans editions sitting on my shelves right now (one belongs to my mom). I had no idea they were so hard to come by.
I’ve been waving a flag for years for “War in Heaven.” Only recently have I gone back to the entire oeuvre. I still have two to go. But you’ve spurred me on.
I still remember the opening of War in Heaven--so unexpected and intriguing, it drew me in to that strange new world. But I stopped there. I'm inspired to reread WiH and to try all the rest! Maybe not all in a row though. Thanks for reminding me/introducing me to the whole works!
I purchased war in heaven perhaps a decade ago probably because you told me too lol. But I had also heard of him through cs Lewis. My review is that the book is like a solid B. Fairly interesting story but the prose is stodgy and slow feeling. I also found the bad guy not evil enough and his intentions for the grail prosaic and quotidian. To me it felt like the point of the book was to show the Christian ideal in the character of the archdeacon and was more of a Christian book than a ‘good book’. Kinda of like how most Christian rock music is way better at being Christian than good music. You saying his prose only gets more stodgy and slow in later novels is not inspiring me to go further lol. Even though he was inkling I don’t think he can discussed on the same playing field with Lewis let alone Tolkien. Unless it’s to say he’s Saliari to their Mozart :)
Williams actually defends his "misogyny" on a theological base [I think inadequately]. Because "women on earth share with the Sacrifice the victimization of blood" (from his Taliessin poems), they cannot also be priests. So in the novels the dirty work of sacrificially cleaning up after the evildoers falls to Betty in All Hallows Eve and to Nancy in The Greater Trumps. And not to Lester or Sybil who are the heroines of faith.
My entry into Williams's writing was Descent into Hell. I gave up in chapter 3 on my first three attempts. I should have started with The Place of the Lion. Reading the theology, church history, and poems helps to understand the intricacies of the stories. And I am eager to discuss his insights with others who speak his language.
Thank you! I’ve been intrigued by him due to the Inkling association. I tried the poetry, but as you commented, like others, I had a hard time with it. Not sure I’ll do any better with the books but you’ve prompt me to try! Found a kindle collection for $.99! Had to smile at your practice of starting, abandoning, donating and re-acquiring books! I do that, too!
I got my first Charles Williams novel (Descent Into Hell) as a white elephant gift, then found others at my favorite bookstore, The Bookery in Placerville. I have them all now but have only read Descent and All Hallow's Eve. You have inspired me to pull them off the shelf and delve more deeply.
I wonder if the impulse to be known as a poet was the highest literary aspiration of the day. Lewis longed to be a better poet and he sent some of his work to Ruth Pitter, a well-known and gifted poet of that time with whom he had an intimate correspondence, asking for her advice to improve his craft.
I would love to hear more about how you manage to cull your library. That is something I struggle with!
Williams is one of those Christian figures like Origen the Alexandrian who may be read with profit but must be read with discernment. My guess is that a significant element in his troubles was that he thought of himself as a Poet and that that somehow made him different from most other people, and that ordinary counsels of prudence applying to them didn't apply to him. Thus he indulged two things, an attraction to occultism and a kind of spiritual adultery. The occultism was involved in his presentation sometimes of Christianity as something with esoteric elements, and the spiritual adultery was terribly injurious to his marriage and, I suspect, his fatherhood vis-a-vis his son. That I have benefited from reading him for more than 50 years I don't doubt, but I also think he very much needed to make a clean breast of some things with a sturdy pastor or priest. He didn't, so far as I know from reading Grevel Lindop's biography, etc.
There's much enjoyable entertainment in some of his novels, and also I never read Descent into Hell without feeling like getting on my knees in prayer.
Joel, you have a way of convincing your readers to pick up all these fascinating books (even if they cannot possibly add anything more to their reading list...). Before Christmas I incredibly found a vintage boxed set of George McDonald fantasy stories, and will now be sure to keep my eyes open for Williams' when browsing at the used book store. Thanks for always supplying such fascinating details about the authors you introduce :)
I found these novels (in cloth bound editions at the public library! I had not realized my good fortune until reading your post!) and devoured them a decade ago thanks to research I was conducting prior to interviewing Elisabeth Elliot's brother, Thomas Howard. Have you read Howard's Novels of Charles Williams? If not you might enjoy it. Wipf & Stock has a solid edition, and it's fwded by J. I. Packer and blurred by Madeleine L'Engle.
I may need to give him another try. I got bogged down in the Place of the Lion and never finished it. Something about the platonic ideals felt a bit on the nose.
In the quote from Lewis, is the"Wm Morris" he is referring to the designer William Morris?
I think Lamb's cover art would alone sell Williams' books. However, Lewis's testimonial of Williams is actually a bit of a warning signal for mr. I share Lewis's love of Chesterton. However, I attempted to read George MacDonald before knowing Lewis was a fan and then again after I read Lewis's recommendation of MacDonald. I still cannot stand MacDonald although I made multiple tries with various of his works - his questionable orthodoxy made me uneasy, but it was his style that really put me off. Some written fantasy makes one's waking reality clearer and lighter, while other written fantasy is like reading one's dreams. And I don't mean daydreams, but rather the night dreams that came to life on the Island where Dreams Come True in Lewis's 'The Voyage on the Dawn Treader'. MacDonald produced the latter kind of fantasy, and I just wanted to wake up from it whenever I tried to read it. Some less well-known works by Lewis, such as 'The Pilgrim's Regress', and by Chesterton, such as 'The Ball and the Cross' have similar waking dream tendencies (Chesterton's 'The Man who was Thursday' was intended to do so). It sounds as if Williams might be another such creator of waking dream fantasy.
I really enjoyed War In Heaven, but was startled by a the appearance of a baddie who was little more than an antisemitic caricature part of the way through.
I still plan to read the rest.
You won’t believe this, but I have not one, but two complete sets of the Eerdmans editions sitting on my shelves right now (one belongs to my mom). I had no idea they were so hard to come by.
I remember reading long ago that one of the Inklings, I'd guess Tolkien, had muttered that Williams should be burned for witchcraft.
All Hallows Eve is essential October reading
I’ve been waving a flag for years for “War in Heaven.” Only recently have I gone back to the entire oeuvre. I still have two to go. But you’ve spurred me on.
I still remember the opening of War in Heaven--so unexpected and intriguing, it drew me in to that strange new world. But I stopped there. I'm inspired to reread WiH and to try all the rest! Maybe not all in a row though. Thanks for reminding me/introducing me to the whole works!
I purchased war in heaven perhaps a decade ago probably because you told me too lol. But I had also heard of him through cs Lewis. My review is that the book is like a solid B. Fairly interesting story but the prose is stodgy and slow feeling. I also found the bad guy not evil enough and his intentions for the grail prosaic and quotidian. To me it felt like the point of the book was to show the Christian ideal in the character of the archdeacon and was more of a Christian book than a ‘good book’. Kinda of like how most Christian rock music is way better at being Christian than good music. You saying his prose only gets more stodgy and slow in later novels is not inspiring me to go further lol. Even though he was inkling I don’t think he can discussed on the same playing field with Lewis let alone Tolkien. Unless it’s to say he’s Saliari to their Mozart :)
I had the in middle school.
Williams actually defends his "misogyny" on a theological base [I think inadequately]. Because "women on earth share with the Sacrifice the victimization of blood" (from his Taliessin poems), they cannot also be priests. So in the novels the dirty work of sacrificially cleaning up after the evildoers falls to Betty in All Hallows Eve and to Nancy in The Greater Trumps. And not to Lester or Sybil who are the heroines of faith.
My entry into Williams's writing was Descent into Hell. I gave up in chapter 3 on my first three attempts. I should have started with The Place of the Lion. Reading the theology, church history, and poems helps to understand the intricacies of the stories. And I am eager to discuss his insights with others who speak his language.
Thank you! I’ve been intrigued by him due to the Inkling association. I tried the poetry, but as you commented, like others, I had a hard time with it. Not sure I’ll do any better with the books but you’ve prompt me to try! Found a kindle collection for $.99! Had to smile at your practice of starting, abandoning, donating and re-acquiring books! I do that, too!
I got my first Charles Williams novel (Descent Into Hell) as a white elephant gift, then found others at my favorite bookstore, The Bookery in Placerville. I have them all now but have only read Descent and All Hallow's Eve. You have inspired me to pull them off the shelf and delve more deeply.
I wonder if the impulse to be known as a poet was the highest literary aspiration of the day. Lewis longed to be a better poet and he sent some of his work to Ruth Pitter, a well-known and gifted poet of that time with whom he had an intimate correspondence, asking for her advice to improve his craft.
I would love to hear more about how you manage to cull your library. That is something I struggle with!