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Paul Kingsnorth's avatar

Thanks for the review. I appreciate the engagement. I don't normally respond to reviews, but in this case I feel the need to, because you characterisations are to my mind both wrong and mistaken, and I am itching to stick my oar in ...

So please accept following the kickback against your review in the spirit in which you offered yours, and from one Orthodox Christian to another. Maybe we will get the chance to have that drink together one day.

Let's start with the notion that 'the Machine' is a product of Christianity. Here are a couple of quotes from your review:

'But contra Kingsnorth, the intent wasn’t to replace religion with Christless secularism; that may have been an effect—it’s at least worth debating—but it was not by design as he claims.'

'Chesterton was clearsighted about many things, but he overlooks his own tradition’s role in capitalism’s emergence and what that origin might tell us about the thing itself. Rodney Stark’s The Victory of Reason shows how, for instance, capitalism arose from European monastic communities where agricultural produce was cultivated, traded, and managed with the development of cash, credit, interest, and investment.'

The first thing to say is that my book makes the explicit argument that the current Western model did indeed emerge from Christianity, quoting Christopher Dawson, among others, to make the point. The first few chapters are taken up with arguing this case. At no point does the book claim that the Reformers and their descendants had an 'intent' to replace Christianity as such. In fact, it quotes Brad Gregory's 'The Unintended Reformation' at some length to argue the opposite.

These reading errors aside, the point you make about Chesterton and the monasteries is, to my mind, just wrong, and it is a wrongness that underpins your whole review. A rather obvious undercurrent throughout is your defence of capitalism, which you seem to bizarrely regard as a system that Christians can get behind. Given the fact that the Gospels are a long blast against wealth, accumulation, greed and inequality this is quite a stretch, though not an uncommon one, I have found, amongst American Christians.

The notion that the monasteries gave birth to this system however, is simply wrong. As the book demonstrates at some length - as did Chesterton - capitalism did not 'evolve' to 'meet needs' but was an enforced system created by land enclosure - or land theft, if we want to be blunt about it. There is a lot of talk in your review about the misery of pre-modern cultures, and there was plenty of it, but you say nothing about the misery of the millions wept into factories during the industrial revolution, or of those currently labouring in China and Africa to dig up the coltan for our phones or sew cheap sweatshirts in endless sweatshops surrounded by dead rivers and dead skies.

As for the monasteries - well, usury was a sin in Christian Europe, and for the simple reason that is was fundamentally unChristian. Only after that notion died was capitalism able to emerge. You say:

'The question is whether modern capitalism represents a continuous development or a qualitative break. I lean toward the former.'

The book leans towards the latter and provides plenty of argument. I might be wrong, but the case is not a flimsy one.

Incidentally, you include an aside about Cuba without mentioning that the book is as harsh on state communism as it is on monopoly capitalism, both of which are manifestations, to my mind, of the same Machine mentality.

Later, you ask:

'How could, after all, such a malign machine produce the gains outlined above? It didn’t. Because there is no malign machine. Kingsnorth might be describing something real: emergent structures that, whatever their origins, now constrain human freedom and flourishing in ways that feel systematic and mechanical. But that’s not the whole story—nowhere near it.'

Well, there certainly is a malign Machine! In my view. But even regardless of that, the book does not deny the gains created by the process. In fact, I repeatedly stated that the gains were real. I also agree with your point that most people like the Machine and its fruits. I am indeed in a minority. Just like the apostles ;-) But then, that's why I wrote the book. If you want a book about the wonders of Western liberal capitalism, they're ten a penny. That's the sea we swim in. This book swims against the tide. I happen to believe that the human soul, and the Earth itself, ultimately does too.

'Corporations like Amazon and Google—not to mention governments—don’t set the parameters of our culture. Culture is a bottom-up phenomenon, an emergent system like language and markets.'

In an ideal world, yes. That would be the 'Four Ps' outlined in the book: people, place, prayer and the past. But it's very naive to imagine that a world dominated by massive corporations and overweening states leaves any air at all for this to happen. When was the last time you wrote a folk song? The Machine commodifies culture and sells it back to us, and this is the enclosure process continuing. My first two books were travelogues exploring this process at work all over the world.

As you correctly say, cultures are dynamic, and ever-changing. This is not at issue. What is at issue is, broadly, 'who we are' in the modern West. The overall impression I get from this review is, I am afraid to say, one of a familiar kind of complacency. 'Cultures evolve, lots of good things happen, and some bad ones too, but we deal with them, and we live in the best system there could be. Don't you like antibiotics and dentists? then stop complaining, whiners!'

Overall, it seems a curious review for an Orthodox Christian to have written. You sing the praises of liberalism, capitalism, secularism and the whole gamut of the modern Western, and especially American project. But it could be argued that these are all products not of 'Christianity', as you suggest, but of a of a mistaken application of it. None of them arose in Orthodox lands, after all. Arguably - though it is not this book's place to argue it - the highly individualistic, grasping, accumulative and fundamentally anti-Christian character of the modern West is a product of the separation that began with the Great Schism. Other Orthodox writers have in fact made this case. The case being made here seems more like that of a liberal protestant. Sorry to be rude ;-)

That becomes even more so when you argue that:

'As products of Christianity as lived within Christian Europe, secularism, liberalism, individualism, capitalism, and the rest, are not foisted upon us from without or by a cabal of malicious elites. These developments are us; we created them in response to real needs and genuine problems. And their best, most fruitful expressions will come not from rejecting them and wandering off, but from better participating in them.'

Hm. Tell that to the Desert Father! Or to the monastics on Mount Athos. Tell that to two millennia's worth of hermits, ascetics, desert saints and monastics who all 'wandered off' to seek God. Ironically, the destruction of precisely this tradition of holy withdrawal during the Reformation is what precipitated us into the Machine, with its values of commerce and self-love. And an Orthodox Christian does not see the irony of trying to demonise 'withdrawal'?!

Finally, I'll just end, as you do, with this:

'The attractive picture he paints at the end of his book—people free to pursue value and meaning in small pockets of community and industry, a politics embracing family, home, and place—is best practiced, perhaps only practiced, within a liberal order that leaves people free to experiment and try new ways of living.'

Again, the complacency is curious. Not only does this quote ignore the fact that James C Scott - who your review specifically mentions - offers examples in my book from across southeast Asia of communities doing just this, but it takes a rather smugly Western-centric view of the world, of the kind I would normally expect to see in the Economist. The notion that communities with deep culture, human freedom and links to the Four Ps can only exist under the umbrella of Western liberalism is so astonishing that I had to read it twice.

In fact, not only is Western 'liberalism' currently creating nations in which people are regularly arrested for expressing their opinions, and can barely afford to live in any way other than as cogs in the digital machine, but true human freedom is increasingly to be found only outside the Machine - which often means outside the West. The notion that the capitalist liberalism bequeathed by 'our Christian past' is all that allows us to homestead, 'practice artisanal crafts' and live in a working community is so bizarre that I wondered if the author had travelled much outside the West - or noticed what is actually going on inside it at present.

In the end, I suppose, we are simply at loggerheads here. I am 'Against the Machine', you deny that the Machine exists. Fundamentally, while we can argue about history, the real issue is theology. This book sets itself up as a 'spiritual manual for the digital age.' Whether it is that I can't say, but the argument is fundamentally a spiritual one. The Machine is, at root, the spirit of the serpent in the garden. We are trying to become 'as gods', and our technologies are the tools we use to do so. Absent from your review was any mention of the chapters in the book which address the move towards post-humanity which this process engenders. Soon enough we will be having to decide not just whether we like capitalism but whether we want to remain human at all - and what that even means.

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Ryan B. Anderson's avatar

I haven’t read this book but I find your diagnosis of what actually makes culture poignant. It reminds me of people complaining about traffic. You’re not IN traffic. You ARE traffic.

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