I read the classics to learn about the past, but I find reading highly respected ancients often serve to topple them off the pedestal that reputation built. I recently finished reading a translation of Aristotle's 'The Art of Rhetoric', and one of Aristotle's premises, that of automatically assuming inherent male superiority, was a bit staggering. It seemed irrelevant whenever he brought it up - he was writing about persuasive public speaking, after all, not discussing domestic division of labour - and it showed that his deductive reasoning was inherently flawed by his own cultural and personal biases. It also emphasizes that ancient Greek culture had more in common with traditional honour culture than modern culture.
True and it is still common in cultures which would be called more traditional, who also practice other things like marrying girls very young, pokygamy, etc. - I lived in such a culture for a while and recall being told, by a man, that women must be married in order that their husbands might pray for them. Aristotle's view would have been uncontroversial there.
I appreciated having it pointed out that decline narratives have no origin point, in a way; they just stretch back into the past for as long as we've been telling stories. A lot of people on Substack are convinced life was better when everyone was reading by candle and memorizing Plutarch, but they'd come running back to the present if you actually put them in that era. It's important to remember that the ancients were very flawed bc it helps us to be "Okay" with the fact that we are, too, and get on with trying to make do/do our best.
My favorite writing era for decline stories is Edwardian England, where authors like Eliot, Chesterton amd Orwell long for the lost glories of Victorian society despite having read all of Dickens, Tolstoy, et al.
I've got the Odyssey on my nightstand as of late. My kids go to a Latin Classical school so I hear a lot of Greco Roman talk around the house. I wish I had more of an appetite for it! This interview has further convinced me to dive in.
I read the classics to learn about the past, but I find reading highly respected ancients often serve to topple them off the pedestal that reputation built. I recently finished reading a translation of Aristotle's 'The Art of Rhetoric', and one of Aristotle's premises, that of automatically assuming inherent male superiority, was a bit staggering. It seemed irrelevant whenever he brought it up - he was writing about persuasive public speaking, after all, not discussing domestic division of labour - and it showed that his deductive reasoning was inherently flawed by his own cultural and personal biases. It also emphasizes that ancient Greek culture had more in common with traditional honour culture than modern culture.
Some truth there. Aristotle basically thought of women as defective men—not uncommon in the ancient world.
True and it is still common in cultures which would be called more traditional, who also practice other things like marrying girls very young, pokygamy, etc. - I lived in such a culture for a while and recall being told, by a man, that women must be married in order that their husbands might pray for them. Aristotle's view would have been uncontroversial there.
I just ordered the book!
Excellent! You’ll love it!
I appreciated having it pointed out that decline narratives have no origin point, in a way; they just stretch back into the past for as long as we've been telling stories. A lot of people on Substack are convinced life was better when everyone was reading by candle and memorizing Plutarch, but they'd come running back to the present if you actually put them in that era. It's important to remember that the ancients were very flawed bc it helps us to be "Okay" with the fact that we are, too, and get on with trying to make do/do our best.
Agreed. It’s easy to love an imaginary past; the real thing is tougher to swallow.
My favorite writing era for decline stories is Edwardian England, where authors like Eliot, Chesterton amd Orwell long for the lost glories of Victorian society despite having read all of Dickens, Tolstoy, et al.
Haha! Yes, the past isn’t all it’s cracked up to be—even when we know better.
I've got the Odyssey on my nightstand as of late. My kids go to a Latin Classical school so I hear a lot of Greco Roman talk around the house. I wish I had more of an appetite for it! This interview has further convinced me to dive in.
You’ll love Nadya’s book! It’s super accessible and helps set a useful frame around all that material.
oooh… ok. I read “Geeks.” My bad.
LOL. We read a lot of geeks, too!