37 Comments
User's avatar
Christopher Booth's avatar

I spent a lot of my life in war zones and a meaningful amount of it mouthing the Serenity Prayer. Vonnegut's politics were quite different from mine, but he is one of my utmost heroes. I'd love to have lit him a Pall Mall.

If you don't know this, I think you and other readers here will enjoy it - Vonnegut on telling stories:

https://youtu.be/oP3c1h8v2ZQ?si=pvZQwcFLADQRmVji

Expand full comment
Joel J Miller's avatar

That Vonnegut bit on the shape of stories is excellent.

Expand full comment
David Perlmutter's avatar

Vonnegut at his best- playing with the narrative expectations of his audience at every turn. His work prior to this was fairly linear in nature; nothing after this would be.

Expand full comment
Joel J Miller's avatar

This was my introduction to his work. I’m eager to read more.

Expand full comment
David Perlmutter's avatar

I recommend the Library of America editions of his writings as well as his Collected Stories volume.

Expand full comment
David's avatar

I thought about writing you a comment saying I read the book in my teens and thought it was foundational then, but then I read a few comments that said something similar and figured I would just write a comment saying I had noticed other people had said more or less the same thing. The comment section sympathizes.

Expand full comment
Joel J Miller's avatar

It’s one of those books that people find quite meaningful, and they often first read it at an impressionable age. Then again, this was my first time through it and I found it quite meaningful as well.

Expand full comment
Jeff Cook-Coyle's avatar

I love the Vonnegutesque comment!

I am in that camp as well btw.

Expand full comment
David's avatar

Haha - he used the phrase “the weather sympathized” several times in one of his books (Dead Eye Dick? I don’t think it was SH5.) He explicitly explained at one point that he was being sarcastic - the weather actually never sympathizes. I loved Vonnegut in those days (I’ve since learned that Russian novelists are more reliable guides.)

Expand full comment
Arnie Bernstein's avatar

I love the book. Someone gave it to me when I was 15 and I've been reading and rereading it steadily every since. I created a mock Tralfamadorian out of a plumber's helper, which I used when I taught it to College Freshman English classes. They always got a kick out of it. One thing about the book that does bother me though. Vonnegut relies on David Irving's book on Dresdent to fill in some facts about what happened; it gets quoted by Billy's hospital roommate. This is the same David Irving who became a major Holocaust denier, and was successfully sued by Deborah Lipstadt for libel because of it. Obviously Irving's Holocaust denial phase came years after Vonnegut wrote SH5. Still, it's distrubing and I wish somehow that Vonnegut had addressed this somehow--unless he did and I missed it?

Expand full comment
Joel J Miller's avatar

I’m not sure if he did. But I don’t think we should be accountable for the beliefs of everyone we cite or source, regardless of how offensive those beliefs might be. Had Vonnegut advocated Irving’s work, that might be another matter.

Expand full comment
Arnie Bernstein's avatar

Agreed

Expand full comment
Gena's avatar

And now I must read it for the first time ever. Thank you for this enthralling introduction to a classic I’ve somehow missed.

Expand full comment
Joel J Miller's avatar

You’re in for a treat!

Expand full comment
Abigail Adams's avatar

Thank you.

In decades, no one has made me want to pick up Slaughterhouse 5 again until now.

Your review shines light on what I missed in "trying" to read it in high school: EVERYTHING.

Missed an ally, too.

I have always despised the "Serenity Prayer", particularly as a child.

Took me years to formulate for myself why:

Citing "wisdom to know the difference"

is NOT serenity, but acquiescence.

Proof: ***nobody*** calls it the Courage Prayer.

And, Jesus never evinced this conscience-salving cowardice that we all placate ourselves with.

Not even thru sweat drops of blood in Gethsemane. "Thy will be done" is action borne by love.

I'm feeling pretty sheepish with my not getting it.

Your review shows Vonnegut's painting in new light. I need look at it some more.

Expand full comment
Joel J Miller's avatar

Well, there’s more than one angle on that prayer, as the story shows. And Billy’s no hero for his resignation. Quite the opposite.

Expand full comment
Ted's avatar

A fellow member of our church is writing a history of the “serenity prayer.” As you note here, he says it’s a lot more complicated than we (mostly) think.

Expand full comment
Abigail Adams's avatar

Pardon, if i were tasked with that, it would not be a history, but an indictment.

Expand full comment
Carol's avatar

I read this when I was young and I will admit, it was hard to get through for me. I like Vonnegut but had to take this with a grain of salt. I also read A Grain of Wheat and kind of had a similar feeling. Maybe I am too old anymore and have a harder time understanding. I am up to date on your list but waiting on a few from my library. Just finished The Apology by Jimin Han which I enjoyed immensely. Not on your list. I read Canticle for Leibowitz, which I found interesting. I like trying new styles of writing.

Some I enjoy, some not so much. But that is why we read, isn’t it?

Expand full comment
Joel J Miller's avatar

Exactly! It’s part of the experience, tasting the table to see what’s good.

Expand full comment
Beth Riungu's avatar

Gosh, it’s been 40 years—your great intro made me order a new copy. I’ll be back to read the rest of your review when I’ve reread the book!

Expand full comment
Joel J Miller's avatar

You’ll have to check back and let us know how it hit you this time.

Expand full comment
Katja's avatar

I read this in 2002 or 2003 when I was working on a US army base in Germany. I really was impressed by it, but it's scary to realize that I'd forgotten just about everything besides "and so it goes".

Expand full comment
Joel J Miller's avatar

I think that’s pretty typical for reading, except a handful of books.

Expand full comment
Katja's avatar

Unfortunately, yes. It's frustrating, though because up until I was 13, I was very good at remembering books down to silly details. When I was about 25, I came up with a template for writing a little bit about books I'd just read, and boy, how I wish I would have kept up doing that! 🤣

Expand full comment
Joel J Miller's avatar

I get it.

Expand full comment
J. B. Velasquez's avatar

Thanks, Joel. Made me want to read it again.

Expand full comment
Joel J Miller's avatar

This was my first time through. I was so impressed I immediately read it again.

Expand full comment
Framing-the-Story w/AK's avatar

Fantastic!!! I need to revisit this novel, which I’ve already read twice.

Expand full comment
Joel J Miller's avatar

I read it twice, once right after the other—just to make sure I followed it.

Expand full comment
Jeff Cook-Coyle's avatar

New subcriber here. I love this review and can't wait to participate here. Congrats on building a great community.

Expand full comment
User's avatar
Comment deleted
Jul 20
Comment deleted
Expand full comment
Joel J Miller's avatar

It’s amazing how relevant literature, even apparently fantastical literature like SHF, can be to our lives.

Expand full comment
Ted's avatar

When I was in Iraq my “wisdom” was simple: if you can hear it, your problems are over, but also if you can’t hear it, your problems are over.

Expand full comment
Joel J Miller's avatar

A stoic acceptance.

Expand full comment
User's avatar
Comment deleted
Jul 20
Comment deleted
Expand full comment
Joel J Miller's avatar

Wonderful. Thank you!

Expand full comment