Alcibades' poor wife tried to limit his impact on her and couldn't. Thankfully, women are not considered their husband's property in law anymore, and so there is a way of escape. But it would be better not to be married to such a man in the first place. Alcibades' wife wouldn't have had much of a choice, marriages were arranged by families in ancient Athens. But modern women do, and as a result, there is a small, but vociferous group of scoundrel men who, feeling cheated of their idea of a properly submissive wife, want to return to the ideas of forced marriage and wife-as-property.
I was just thinking that the Old Testament described such people as, in KJV lingo, "men of Belial", also translated as 'worthless men'. Abigail's first husband, Nabal, was "such a son of Belial that a man cannot speak to him" (I Samuel 25:17, also v. 25).
I think Marcus Aurelius provided the answer to your closing question, "Waste no more time arguing about what a good man should be. Be one." We can't control others, but we can be an example of integrity ourselves.
It is more than odd to me that Socrates seemed to have thought that by misrepresenting Alcibiades' prowess on the battle field, he would increase Alcibiades' honourable intentions. But perhaps there is more to the story than we have been given here. On the face of it, it sounds like Socrates joined with everyone in indulging Alcibiades' sense of entitlement.
Even the wise make mistakes, the difference is that they learn from them. It reminds me of the mistakes Plato made in his dealings with the powerful, although I do not know if he learned from his mistakes. An interesting contrast is Socrates' friend Euripides' last play, the Bacchae, which provides a searing example of a young wealthy headstrong tyrant suffering a horrible fate after trying to imprison and kill Dionysos, the god of transformative life. I really appreciate Richard Seaford's description of the Bachae in his book Dionysos.
The idea that the desire to learn about virtue and how to be virtuous is at the core of the enterprise is a valuable insight...but I find myself thinking that the most important point is that that interest in itself must be taught. I have a young son and am esp aware as a result that I have to at least set him up to go out into the world at 18 HOPING not to be a shithead
Alcibades' poor wife tried to limit his impact on her and couldn't. Thankfully, women are not considered their husband's property in law anymore, and so there is a way of escape. But it would be better not to be married to such a man in the first place. Alcibades' wife wouldn't have had much of a choice, marriages were arranged by families in ancient Athens. But modern women do, and as a result, there is a small, but vociferous group of scoundrel men who, feeling cheated of their idea of a properly submissive wife, want to return to the ideas of forced marriage and wife-as-property.
Yeah, not good. Pretty terrible, in fact.
I was just thinking that the Old Testament described such people as, in KJV lingo, "men of Belial", also translated as 'worthless men'. Abigail's first husband, Nabal, was "such a son of Belial that a man cannot speak to him" (I Samuel 25:17, also v. 25).
Bonus points for mentioning Cole Porter. There's the rub: changing our wills, not just changing our minds.
Something to that. Involves changing our hearts, our affections.
I think Marcus Aurelius provided the answer to your closing question, "Waste no more time arguing about what a good man should be. Be one." We can't control others, but we can be an example of integrity ourselves.
The only person we can control—and not always and not thoroughly—is ourselves.
🏺 Joel you have posted another review 💫✍🏼 for the ages: don't be that guy. Keep'm coming.
Thanks! That’s the plan!
Joe Biden
It is more than odd to me that Socrates seemed to have thought that by misrepresenting Alcibiades' prowess on the battle field, he would increase Alcibiades' honourable intentions. But perhaps there is more to the story than we have been given here. On the face of it, it sounds like Socrates joined with everyone in indulging Alcibiades' sense of entitlement.
Even the wise make mistakes, the difference is that they learn from them. It reminds me of the mistakes Plato made in his dealings with the powerful, although I do not know if he learned from his mistakes. An interesting contrast is Socrates' friend Euripides' last play, the Bacchae, which provides a searing example of a young wealthy headstrong tyrant suffering a horrible fate after trying to imprison and kill Dionysos, the god of transformative life. I really appreciate Richard Seaford's description of the Bachae in his book Dionysos.
Often entitlement feelings are muted by mockery- except with the ones who can't take a joke.
The secret weapon against the proud and narcissistic: the humble snigger.
Governor Pritzker
The idea that the desire to learn about virtue and how to be virtuous is at the core of the enterprise is a valuable insight...but I find myself thinking that the most important point is that that interest in itself must be taught. I have a young son and am esp aware as a result that I have to at least set him up to go out into the world at 18 HOPING not to be a shithead
LOL. I’ve got three sons. The struggle is real—but worth it. I’m proud of the men my guys are shaping up to be.
Yeah to be clear, if my son shaped up to be someone who goes to the bathroom on his own Id be pretty satisfied
😏