Love these insights. I listen to a lot of nonfiction on audio and use the rewind button often. Also, just now playing around with how to clip and save sections. My favorite hack though is to keep an Apple note open while I listen and use the microphone button to vocalize and transcribe important facts I want to remember, insights, and ideas to dig into more at a later time. Working well so far!
Great idea! Just tried this on my Android and found it works on Samsung notes and Google docs too since I'm using the Samsung keyboard that has a voice to text feature
Good insights on audiobooks. I’ll add that I do read dense nonfiction on audiobooks (at 1.5x speed). When I’m reading the same work on the page, I have a bad habit of chasing rabbit trails and getting bogged down, losing the main thesis of the author. When I listen, I’m forced to catch the big themes of the work without the ability to getting bogged down in interesting but tertiary points the author may make.
Great point. Print brings its own distractibility problems. I read a lot of nonfiction on audio (also 1.5 speed). I mostly stay in it but need to take notes to ensure I retain it.
The gamechanger for me is when I (finally) got a smartphone (it may have been 2018) and I discovered I could clip/bookmark in the audio book. AND those save in my Audible profile! I just finished listening to some American long-distance runner books, clipped parts I wanted to make a note on, and then that weekend, sat down at my computer/Evernote to return to the clip and type up the note.
It would not be incorrect to say that I want to retire early JUST SO I can read, listen, and think more, lol.
Jun 9, 2023·edited Jun 9, 2023Liked by Joel J Miller
I wonder how much learning styles factor into this? I retain a lot through audiobooks and find it's preferred in many instances. (While others talk about how they cannot pay attention to listening to something that long, or it not being a great learning format for them... that's not been the case for me!) Part of my own draw to audiobooks is how SLOWLY I read physical lines & pages in books.... and this has been the case since I was a child, pre-social media/internet. I see other people talking about how they blow through books in a sitting or two and that has never been my experience. Because of how slowly I naturally am able to read books, it is discouraging - and so audiobooks fill a desire I have to take in more books. I physically read a select few books I don't mind going through slowly.
Yet another upside to audio! I find I can get through novels on audio that might lose my attention in print. If the story drags and I’m reading on paper, I have to muster the energy and focus to keep going. But if I’m listening I can outsource that work to the narrator. I definitely finish more fiction thanks to audiobooks.
I used to walk the dog and listen to books, and I can remember locations where I was when I listened to certain passages. So now when I drive those streets I remember clips of novels.
That’s awesome. Memory is contextual, and many of its cues are spatial. Fun to think about how many of those cues are developed while we’re out and about doing other things.
For weighty non-fiction works I want to engage with fully, I will often listen to the audio while watching (and reading) the text as it is being highlighted on my iPad’s Kindle app (while wearing noise-canceling headphones, of course). Anecdotally, I find this helps me build my “focus muscle”.
That’s a cool idea. I’ve tried listening to an audio while reading the physical book but don’t enjoy that. I imagine that would be different if an app is highlighting the text as I go.
Great thoughts on Audiobooks. I have steadily increased my book-listening in the past few years but also realize there are some drawbacks. I love them for memoirs - where there is not a lot I need to process or remember but just enjoy the story being told. On the down side, works in translation or books published from other countries can get confusing since I don't see the names of characters and places - it can make it hard to remember or follow. Also with fiction, it can be difficult to keep track of a large cast of characters or complicated plot or time switches. I like the idea of going between mediums but this is based on availability and I can't always get a kindle or paper version of the book I am listening to. Also, with audio, I live or die by the narrator. Most are great but occasionally I don't like the narrator and it totally impacts my enjoyment of the book.
Good timing for me to try my experiment. Have been contemplating listening to Substack. While doing chores. Your point about reading text as opposed to listening has been confirmed here. I'm scarcely remembering your points. Analytical aspect (reading nonfiction) Versus intuitive (listening, fiction) Is my experience too. Falling asleep at night while listening to fiction is a comfort. And I do go back to check what was missed in print.
So interesting! I have not read a physical work of fiction in years -- I don't have time -- so all of my fiction has been via audiobooks (in the car, on long walks). I find in talking with friends who have read the same books (I could list them -- sci fi bestsellers, Dexter Palmer, Ann Patchett, Steven Peck, now some Jasmin Darznik -- I find I recall them better and remember small details than those who have read them. Perhaps I have better recall but perhaps details go to a different place in my brain. I am not sure I'll ever go back to reading fiction!
That’s an interesting upside not mentioned above. But if System 1 tends toward the automatic and intuitive, that could mean our memories of audio content might be more emotionally charged or inflected—and thus memorable in different ways—than our memories of written content.
Over half of my current Goodreads is thanks to audio through our local library. I love audio books, but yes, my mind does occasionally wander. I've also started getting the physical copy of the book when there are ideas I want to look at again or I feel like they belong in research for my writing. And then there are occasional rereads with physical books. I had to do that with Brene Brown's Atlas of the Heart and I'm currently doing that with Beth Moore's memoir.
It’s cool that we instinctively know what to do to compensate for these tradeoffs. You also point out something important there regarding your research: How attentive we need to be depends in part on what we plan on doing with it.
My preferred method of reading will always be print. But, even with that being said, I always keep at least 1-2 Kindle books going so I can read on my phone rather than mindlessly scrolling. And, I always have at least one audio book for the car and for the gym. I'm awareof the attention shifts and partial engagement. I stick to novels mostly and lighter nonfiction. I get all my audiobooks from the library through the Libby app. I use it to try out books or authors I'm interested in but unsure if I want purchase. If listen to something I love, you can be assured that I'll be buying it in print to read it again.
Love these insights. I listen to a lot of nonfiction on audio and use the rewind button often. Also, just now playing around with how to clip and save sections. My favorite hack though is to keep an Apple note open while I listen and use the microphone button to vocalize and transcribe important facts I want to remember, insights, and ideas to dig into more at a later time. Working well so far!
Great idea! Just tried this on my Android and found it works on Samsung notes and Google docs too since I'm using the Samsung keyboard that has a voice to text feature
Great idea. As an avid Apple Notes user, I love that hack!
Good insights on audiobooks. I’ll add that I do read dense nonfiction on audiobooks (at 1.5x speed). When I’m reading the same work on the page, I have a bad habit of chasing rabbit trails and getting bogged down, losing the main thesis of the author. When I listen, I’m forced to catch the big themes of the work without the ability to getting bogged down in interesting but tertiary points the author may make.
Great point. Print brings its own distractibility problems. I read a lot of nonfiction on audio (also 1.5 speed). I mostly stay in it but need to take notes to ensure I retain it.
I am a fan of all of Joel's audiobook tips above.
The gamechanger for me is when I (finally) got a smartphone (it may have been 2018) and I discovered I could clip/bookmark in the audio book. AND those save in my Audible profile! I just finished listening to some American long-distance runner books, clipped parts I wanted to make a note on, and then that weekend, sat down at my computer/Evernote to return to the clip and type up the note.
It would not be incorrect to say that I want to retire early JUST SO I can read, listen, and think more, lol.
@millersbookreview
I love that! And I do the Same thing from time to time.
I wonder how much learning styles factor into this? I retain a lot through audiobooks and find it's preferred in many instances. (While others talk about how they cannot pay attention to listening to something that long, or it not being a great learning format for them... that's not been the case for me!) Part of my own draw to audiobooks is how SLOWLY I read physical lines & pages in books.... and this has been the case since I was a child, pre-social media/internet. I see other people talking about how they blow through books in a sitting or two and that has never been my experience. Because of how slowly I naturally am able to read books, it is discouraging - and so audiobooks fill a desire I have to take in more books. I physically read a select few books I don't mind going through slowly.
Yet another upside to audio! I find I can get through novels on audio that might lose my attention in print. If the story drags and I’m reading on paper, I have to muster the energy and focus to keep going. But if I’m listening I can outsource that work to the narrator. I definitely finish more fiction thanks to audiobooks.
I used to walk the dog and listen to books, and I can remember locations where I was when I listened to certain passages. So now when I drive those streets I remember clips of novels.
That’s awesome. Memory is contextual, and many of its cues are spatial. Fun to think about how many of those cues are developed while we’re out and about doing other things.
For weighty non-fiction works I want to engage with fully, I will often listen to the audio while watching (and reading) the text as it is being highlighted on my iPad’s Kindle app (while wearing noise-canceling headphones, of course). Anecdotally, I find this helps me build my “focus muscle”.
That’s a cool idea. I’ve tried listening to an audio while reading the physical book but don’t enjoy that. I imagine that would be different if an app is highlighting the text as I go.
Great thoughts on Audiobooks. I have steadily increased my book-listening in the past few years but also realize there are some drawbacks. I love them for memoirs - where there is not a lot I need to process or remember but just enjoy the story being told. On the down side, works in translation or books published from other countries can get confusing since I don't see the names of characters and places - it can make it hard to remember or follow. Also with fiction, it can be difficult to keep track of a large cast of characters or complicated plot or time switches. I like the idea of going between mediums but this is based on availability and I can't always get a kindle or paper version of the book I am listening to. Also, with audio, I live or die by the narrator. Most are great but occasionally I don't like the narrator and it totally impacts my enjoyment of the book.
I’ve had a few audiobooks where the narrators were terrible. I still listened anyway.🤣 I love audiobooks for fiction and memoir as well.
Good timing for me to try my experiment. Have been contemplating listening to Substack. While doing chores. Your point about reading text as opposed to listening has been confirmed here. I'm scarcely remembering your points. Analytical aspect (reading nonfiction) Versus intuitive (listening, fiction) Is my experience too. Falling asleep at night while listening to fiction is a comfort. And I do go back to check what was missed in print.
I enjoy listening to fiction at night too sometimes. Works great for falling asleep.
So interesting! I have not read a physical work of fiction in years -- I don't have time -- so all of my fiction has been via audiobooks (in the car, on long walks). I find in talking with friends who have read the same books (I could list them -- sci fi bestsellers, Dexter Palmer, Ann Patchett, Steven Peck, now some Jasmin Darznik -- I find I recall them better and remember small details than those who have read them. Perhaps I have better recall but perhaps details go to a different place in my brain. I am not sure I'll ever go back to reading fiction!
That’s an interesting upside not mentioned above. But if System 1 tends toward the automatic and intuitive, that could mean our memories of audio content might be more emotionally charged or inflected—and thus memorable in different ways—than our memories of written content.
Over half of my current Goodreads is thanks to audio through our local library. I love audio books, but yes, my mind does occasionally wander. I've also started getting the physical copy of the book when there are ideas I want to look at again or I feel like they belong in research for my writing. And then there are occasional rereads with physical books. I had to do that with Brene Brown's Atlas of the Heart and I'm currently doing that with Beth Moore's memoir.
It’s cool that we instinctively know what to do to compensate for these tradeoffs. You also point out something important there regarding your research: How attentive we need to be depends in part on what we plan on doing with it.
And sometimes I'll listen to a book and I won't know I need it for research until after I'm done listening. That's what the library is for 😜
True! Always great to be surprised by book.
My preferred method of reading will always be print. But, even with that being said, I always keep at least 1-2 Kindle books going so I can read on my phone rather than mindlessly scrolling. And, I always have at least one audio book for the car and for the gym. I'm awareof the attention shifts and partial engagement. I stick to novels mostly and lighter nonfiction. I get all my audiobooks from the library through the Libby app. I use it to try out books or authors I'm interested in but unsure if I want purchase. If listen to something I love, you can be assured that I'll be buying it in print to read it again.